Note: This transcript is adapted from a radio script, and may contain grammar errors and formatting quirks that some readers might find objectionable.
FEMALE VOICE: Hi, Lauren, I have Senator Gramm on the line.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Senator Gramm, can you hear me?
SENATOR PHIL GRAMM: Yes, ma'am.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Political courage is one of those cliche phrases people in politics throw around a lot.
Here’s a guy who might have a claim to it - you can decide for yourself.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Oh, good. How are you?
Senator Gramm: Well, it's pretty hot in Texas.
His name is Phil Gramm.
He was a US Senator in Texas .
And listen to this - he started his career as a Democrat - he got elected to Congress and everything - then he resigned - and ran for reelection as a REPUBLICAN. And he won!
So yeah - that might take political courage.
There was also another thing he did while he was running for president in 1996.
President Bill Clinton was running for a second term - so Republicans were choosing who would run against him.
And they had a lot of options - like Bob Dole, Steve Forbes, Pat Buchanan, Llamar Alexander...
And then - there was Senator Gramm.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Well, as far as I understand and from what I've read, when you ran for president, you chose to campaign in Delaware. Do you know where I'm going with this?
SENATOR PHIL GRAMM: Yeah...yeah. it’s one of those tough deals.
(music)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN It was a tough deal for Senator Gramm. That year - while plotting his campaign - Senator Gramm was forced to make a big decision. He decided to defy New Hampshire.
And how did New Hampshire respond?
With political blackmail.
[THEME SONG]
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN I’m Lauren Chooljian and from New Hampshire Public Radio - this is Stranglehold.
NO but really - this episode - is ABOUT that Stranglehold.
I’m gonna tell you about some people who just wouldn’t bow down to the first in the nation primary state - instead - they tried to loosen the grip.
For decades - New Hampshire could stand its ground and knock down anybody that tried to steal its prized possession
But how long can a state hold on - battle lines are being redrawn - and these days - the threats aren’t coming from the usual suspects.
National politics - the media - technology - it’s all changing - and the N.H. primary can’t escape it.
[music]
HOWARD DEAN: New Hampshire is a great state and I enjoyed campaigning there tremendously. They do not get to control the nominating process for president United States.
JAMES PINDELL: The New Hampshire primary is the identity. It's been the identity of my life and it's been it's been the identity of the state
SENATOR CARL LEVIN: Take a look at these quotes! I pledge to the death to protect the NH primary so help me god...It’s a reality we’ve got to change.
[music ends]
(music)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: When New Hampshire is up against the wall - when other states are trying to creep up on the first in the nation primary - people here insist- we’re special.
No one else can do this like we do.
But in the 1990s another state stepped up and said hey - you know we’re special too.
We can do retail politics - and we’ve got it all - a big city - a farm belt, a more diverse population.
That state?
It was Delaware.
MUSIC
RICHARD FORSTEN: I remember a high school teacher I had once saying that Delaware in many ways was a microcosm of the United States...
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN This is Richard Forsten- he’s the longtime attorney for the Delaware Republican party - and he’s always felt that Delaware had early state potential.
RICHARD FORSTEN: And if you were looking for a state that was reflective of the country as a whole, Delaware is probably as close as you're going to get.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: So when you would make that case to people, I mean, no offense to the great state of Delaware, but I mean, it's kind of a surprising pitch to hear.
RICHARD FORSTEN: I'm not sure why it's surprising, it's just a reflection of kind of our population.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: I don't know just - I just didn't know that about Delaware, I guess.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: OK - can I just say - in my defense - how many people really know about the regions of Delaware - or even the regions of New Hampshire for that matter.
Anyway.
So it’s coming up on the 96 presidential race and Delaware lawmakers pass a law that allows them to hold a primary MUCH earlier in the nomination calendar.
RICHARD FORSTEN: I think there was a sense that, you know, if no one comes to Delaware, I mean, you said it yourself. You don't you don't know that much about Delaware.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: I’ll never live this down
RICHARD FORSTEN: And so I think the idea was by moving up in the process, you would get candidates coming to Delaware, you would get people more focused on Delaware, and it would be exciting for Delaware to have presidential candidates coming here.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Right. Yeah how much power does a state really get from having its primary so early in the calendar?
RICHARD FORSTEN: Well, why does New Hampshire fight so zealously to be the first primary?
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Fair enough.
(music)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Now - often times if you hear a story about New Hampshire fiercely guarding the primary - the hero of that story is usually Secretary of State Bill Gardner.
Remember the story of Iowa and the pigs? -- those are the kinds of tales that get told around here - there’s another one about how Bill Gardner stood up to Nancy Pelosi.
In the 1980s - and she came to Concord to persuade Gardner to change the date of the New Hampshire Primary. Local legend has it - Gardner didn’t flinch, and Pelosi backed down.
But what I’ve learned is that defending the primary is actually a team sport - and it’s a responsibility some of the states top power brokers take VERY SERIOUSLY.
And this is where the blackmail comes in.
(beat)
It started with a group of Republicans in New Hampshire - guys like Steve Duprey - then head of the state Republican Party.
As the 96 campaign started to kick off - they met with the Republicans running for president.
And basically - they threatened them.
Listen up - Voters here - they won’t look kindly on candidates who campaign in DELAWARE - because DELAWARE doesn’t respect our tradition.
STEVE DUPREY: And you know there was some grumbling from staff that it's blackmail and everything else but we’d say look we have some of the highest voter turnout...we've been doing this for years. Everybody gets a chance whether you're the richest candidate the poorest candidate you're all treated equally. The party apparatus stays neutral. And Delaware has never done this.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Basically - they’d tell candidates - you wanna win? Don’t go to Delaware.
STEVE DUPREY: If I were you I would come out clearly on your very first visit to New Hampshire when you stepped foot off the plane or out of your car saying New Hampshire first and I will not follow the Delaware process.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Now New Hampshire wasn’t making an empty threat here
New Hampshire voters had put people like Jimmy Carter - Ronald Reagan - Bill Clinton on a fast track to the White House.
So this was a state that really MEANT something to people who wanted to WIN.
STEVE DUPREY: If you think you can do better in Delaware you can declare that but you probably should skip coming to New Hampshire
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: This argument was working with most Republican candidates.
It also - by the way - worked for the sitting Democratic president - someone convinced Bill Clinton not to even FILE his name on the Delaware ballot.
But there were a few hold outs - and one of them was Republican Senator Phil Gramm of Texas.
SENATOR PHIL GRAMM: You know, I was running for president, I didn’t decide who had primaries or caucuses when or where those caucuses occurred. And so I took the sort of stubborn. View. Not surprising. For somebody from Texas that you know I was going to run wherever people were having elections. //
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Gramm couldn’t stand watching other candidates fold to New Hampshire.
I found a quote from him back then where he said - if you can’t take a little heat on an issue like this how you’re going to deal with the Russians, much less the Democrats?
SENATOR PHIL GRAMM: I felt that other people were pandering. And I just wasn't gonna do it. And my point is // If you're so easily intimidated that you won't campaign where people are going to vote. Because you might offend somebody in another state. You know, when you're dealing with real pressures. How are you gonna handle those? I think it's a valid point.
(music)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Valid or not - Gramm was NOT catching on in New Hampshire.
He’ll tell you now that in retrospect - he didn’t run the GREATEST campaign - didn’t have the right message for the right time...
And- he actually thinks maybe this whole Delaware decision he made was also part of the problem.
SENATOR PHIL GRAMM: Well, it definitely would - didn't help me. Let's put it that way,.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: (laughing)
SENATOR PHIL GRAMM: Did it - in the end, would it have made a great deal of difference, maybe not. But if I were doing it over again, I would probably start and just campaign in New Hampshire. Nobody paid much attention to the other places.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: No kidding. You feel that way?
SENATOR PHIL GRAMM: Yeah, I think so.
(pause)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: This was the level of power that New Hampshire had back then - they could minimize an argument that would seem to anyone else to be pretty reasonable - I just want to campaign wherever people are having elections.
Oh and by the way - it’s worth noting that Delaware was never trying to be first.
They just wanted to be earlier - four days AFTER the New Hampshire primary.
THAT was what inspired the blackmail, the pressure and all the bluster - not a state that wanted to beat them out - but a state that was within a WEEK of our primary - because that broke New Hampshire’s state law.
And in the end - New Hampshire won - yeah Delaware held it’s primary, but hardly anyone showed up - so Bill Gardner wrote it off as just a beauty contest.
But New Hampshire would soon face more formidable opponents
HOWARD DEAN: If we're going to represent diverse people diverse people ought to have an early vote in who the nominee is going to be. So that is a problem.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: We’ll get to that in a minute.
----------
(music, crowd noise)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: We’ve gotta get away from that music...
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: President Donald Trump came to New Hampshire this summer for a campaign rally - his way of kicking off the 2020 election.
There were THOUSANDS of people there to see him.
My colleague Jason Moon and I were assigned to cover OUTSIDE the rally - talking with people who were attending - and protesting - the event.
It was loud out there - music - chanting - and I was running around, trying to make sure I had talked to a variety of voters for my story...
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Alright I need more women.
And then I spotted someone who looked SO familiar
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Oh wait no let’s talk to this guy.
...but I just couldn’t place him
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Ooh this is - this is -I gotta think about this, I think his name is Eric? Um..
I decide to just go for it - Jason and I walked over and I tapped him on the shoulder.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Did we go to college together? I’m Lauren Chooljian. No you didn’t go to Saint A’s
ERIC JACKMAN: We did protect our primary together!
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: That’s what it was! I’m Lauren, good to see you
ERIC JACKMAN: I know who you are. I emailed you a little while back.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: I thought so...
ERIC JACKMAN: Because I want to be on NPR!
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: His name was Eric - Eric Jackman - and - this seems as good a time as any to tell you that Eric is standing outside this Trump rally in a suit - big red tie - with orangey foundation dripping on his collar - and a thick, blonde wig on his head.
ERIC JACKMAN: We’re going to build a beautiful wall.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Eric is a professional Trump impersonator. Something he says he wouldn’t have been as successful at - if he lived somewhere else.
ERIC JACKMAN: I'm a product of the New Hampshire primary. My comedy career is definitely a product of the New Hampshire primary. And Donald Trump, you know. (in trump voice) And you know what? Donald, I will always appreciate that. OK, we'll always have Manchester and Moscow. OK. We always will.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Eric may be a product of the New Hampshire primary - but I have a confession to make.
So am I.
I grew up here - and I chose to go to Saint Anselm College in Manchester in part because they advertised a front row seat to the primary - and I totally bought it.
Sure enough - I think I met 13 candidates during the 2008 cycle...
Eric - our Trump impersonator friend here - he’s actually one of the reasons why - he was a leader of this group called Protect our Primary. They came on campus and my roommate, a couple friends and I- we all signed up for it because we were told we’d get to meet presidential candidates. Sounded cool...
But turns out - we were kinda being used - the guys who ran this thing wanted to use our fresh faces to get candidates to PROMISE to keep New Hampshire first against threats from other states..
They gave us a roll of stickers that said protect our primary - and they told us to stick them on a candidates blazers - and make sure we got a picture of it - even better if we were in the picture with the candidate.
My college computer is full of photos like this - me and Hilary Clinton - a sticker on her pinstripe suit. Barack Obama - sticker on his lapel - reaching to shake my hand. Rudy Giuliani - lots of photos with Rudy Giuliani
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: I always felt like looking back on it now as a skeptical reporter, that we were an easy sell like candidates love college students...
ERIC JACKMAN: Of course! There's a level of pandering. Of course, if a young, starry eyed college student gets in your face and says, Hey, Senator, Governor, a congressman, will you wear this sticker and take a picture? And vowed to support keeping New Hampshire first. Dude, you think they're gonna say no?
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN:At the time - as a myopic college student - this all seemed to me to be totally harmless.
I was told that we could lose our first in the nation status when the 2008 primary rolled around and that doing this would help.
But what I know now that I didn’t realize then was I was unwittingly engaged in a debate about something much bigger - something at the core of representative democracy.
(music)
This fight got started - again - by another state - but it would spiral into something much, much larger this time.
Michigan started it - one of their US Senators, Carl Levin he felt that New Hampshire and Iowa had a STRANGLEHOLD on the presidential nominating process - that would be a direct quote.
Levin felt that Michigan wasn’t getting enough of a say - so he convinced the Democratic National Committee that they should consider bumping Iowa and New Hampshire
Michigan started it - one of their US Senators, Carl Levin he felt that New Hampshire and Iowa had a STRANGLEHOLD on the presidential nominating process - that would be a direct quote.
Levin had long felt that Michigan wasn’t getting enough of a say - so he convinced the Democratic National Committee that they should consider bumping Iowa and New Hampshire.
The national political parties own the nomination process - so not only do they write the rules but they can punish states who don’t follow along.
But once this conversation got going among DNC members - it kind of evolved.
Democrats realized that what they REALLY had on their hands here was not some spat between a big state and two little ones… it was a foundational question about the future of their party - and of the electorate.
Howard Dean was the chair of the DNC back then - I met up with him recently in Vermont.
HOWARD DEAN: Iowa and New Hampshire are two of the least diverse states in the country and our party is very diverse. The Republicans aren't. But we are. And if we're going to represent diverse people, diverse people ought to have an early vote in who the nominee is going to be. So that is a problem.
(music)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: So, they start holding meetings….discussing new ways to organize the calendar.
Maybe we should rotate - give other states a chance - maybe we should add more states to the early lineup?
Because the thing is - the facts are the facts. New Hampshire has long been one of the whitest states in the nation.
The population here is older, wealthier, more educated and less religious than most of the country.
So it was a complicated discussion between national Democratic power brokers.
They gathered in hotel ballrooms with ugly carpeting - they sat at long tables arranged in the shape of a U...and they went at it for months - there were a lot of competing interests.
And New Hampshire and Iowa took a lot of heat.
(music)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Iowa and New Hampshire were told - look - you don’t own retail politics...
SENATOR BLANCHE LINCOLN: I can say personally as a candidate in Arkansas retail politics are critical. We're still a state where if you don't show up at the pie supper and you don't show up at the coon supper if you don't show up and eat everything that flies or walks or whatever you're not going to get elected.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Iowa and New Hampshire were told - it’s JUST. Not. FAIR that you guys are first.
SENATOR CARL LEVIN: We all want to see candidates! Two states see candidates 50 and 100 times! Take a look at these quotes! Last election, I’m gonna live in Iowa and New Hampshire for the next two years... Another one: I will pledge to the death to protect the NH primary so help me god. It’s a reality we gotta change!
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Iowa and New Hampshire were told you don’t reflect the challenges of MANY people in this nation.
DONNA BRAZILLE: 37 million Americans live under the poverty line in this country. We've been their voice and we've been their champions. But often in presidential season we forget them.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Iowa and New Hampshire were told - you’re too white. Your privileged position is closing off vital voices in our country.
SPENCER OVERTON: I’m Frankly Madam Chair already uncomfortable. with enshrining Iowa and New Hampshire /// earlier this year I stood in line for four and a half hours to see Rosa Parks her casket in the Capitol runs the rotunda and there were just 30,000 Americans out there in line in the middle of the night basically to acknowledge this woman who had challenged privilege challenged basically the notion that someone is entitled to a certain position and a certain status.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Iowa and New Hampshire - that thing you guard SO deeply - that thing that you think your states do best?
It’s time to move on.
(pause)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: People in New Hampshire were watching these discussions - some were in the rooms where these things were being said.
And in response - New Hampshire Democrats would promise - we are committed to diversity. Full stop.
Butttttt… they ALSO said YOU ALL have to consider the unintended consequences of shaking things up. Adding more early states - frontloading the calendar - that could lead to a NATIONAL primary - weakening the power of retail politics...is that what we want?
Think of how well this system has worked for Democrats.
SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: We saw that in 1992 with a little-known governor from Arkansas Bill Clinton. We saw it in 1976 with a little known governor of Georgia Jimmy Carter. It’s been an important part of the process.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: New Hampshire has a track record they’d say.
History has shown that. New Hampshire is a place where ANYONE can be president. And isn’t that the American dream?
TERRY SHUMAKER: And we are the party of the American dream. Ladies and gentlemen that anybody born in this country can grow up to be president
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: That’s what they would say.
That’s the argument - New Hampshire offers something special - retail politics.
It’s the same argument I made as a college student in the mid 2000s - slapping stickers on wanna be presidents -- asking them if they’d keep NH first.
I feel a little weird about it in retrospect - I was totally oblivious to these questions about representation - because all I knew to value was retail politics.
I experienced it myself - at 20 years old - I asked many candidates my own questions - I had lunch with one of them - I saw other voters do the same - it did seem special and it did seem important for democracy.
(music)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: But what if retail politics lost its value - what if the candidates found other ways to win?
And what if we face threats that our go to argument can’t beat?
JAMES PINDELL: When it’s from the national committee, or when it’s from another state, there’s a process moment in which one side wins and one side loses, And New Hampshire has always won. The threats this time are not that way at all.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: We’ll get to THAT in a minute.
---
(ambi)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: I’m sitting in a little studio in newsroom of the Boston Globe
I’ve been hanging out for about - mmm 20 minutes? Microphone at the ready - waiting for reporter James Pindell.
Then I hear him FINALLY - coming closer...he pops his head into the door.
JAMES PINDELL: Um I totally fucked you over I'm so sorry. so I'm gonna get some tea and I'll be right over.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: You’re fine!
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: This is Pindell. Very kind, very busy, very intense - ESPECIALLY right now - the fall before the New Hampshire primary.
He literally took three phone calls while getting that cup of tea - but finally I get him in a chair.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: First, even though I know you. You tell me what stranglehold listeners should know about your career. Basically, tell me everything.
JAMES PINDELL: (laughs) um…
(pause)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: The primary’s your life.
(laughing)
JAMES PINDELL: I know right....
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: This is not an exaggeration - since he was in high school - Pindell has intentionally planned his entire life around the first in the nation elections - he went to college in Iowa.
And in 2002 he took a job with a barely known blog just so he could cover the New Hampshire primary - and he’s been here ever since.
JAMES PINDELL: It's not just because I love politics. I am deeply, deeply romantic about the idea of the New Hampshire primary. I have cried at several different events. I remember the first time I cried at a New Hampshire primary event? It was 2002. It was in late October
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: So this crying episode was ahead of the 2004 primary - Pindell was at a house party for a candidate on the Seacoast. And all our talk in past episodes about picture perfect participatory democracy? Pindell saw it for himself.
JAMES PINDELL: We're at a gathering of about 15 people. And Howard Dean is standing next to the fireplace at a house. The beginning, believe or not, there is snow beginning to fly. The first snowfall of the season.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: No.
JAMES PINDELL: The kids are running around, you know, in their stocking feet upstairs, having fun. And meanwhile, we are getting into it on the future of American politics. And I'm like, this is the most idyllic thing. I'm the only reporter there to watch this. And I actually cry. I'm like, this is why you come to cover politics in New Hampshire.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: That idea that New Hampshire makes better presidents - Pindell is all in.
Now - he wants to be clear - he hears the representation and diversity arguments - and thinks those are valid.
BUT - he deeply believes that if New Hampshire and Iowa aren’t first - America loses something.
JAMES PINDELL: What bothers me right now is that looking ahead at this particular presidential cycle. This what, Iowa and New Hampshire, the - everything I just said, the reasons I cry. The reasons that the Iowa, New Hampshire matter the most have been dissolving.
(music)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Dissolving. Not gone - but Pindell sees something happening here.
Something that will even impact the way his team covers the election.
He brought this up last year with his bosses at the Boston Globe.
JAMES PINDELL: And I said, I know what's going to happen. We're going to meet probably next week, which we did. And we're going to - someone's going to go over to the shelf and they're going to take this old dusty template, the New Hampshire primary template, and they're going to come over here and blow off all the dust and they're going to say, all right. So here's the deal. We know how these campaigns work. We know when we need to staff up. We need to staff up, you know, here, here, here and here.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: But Pindell told his editors that’s not gonna work this time. - we can’t cover this thing like we used to. The things that used to matter - don’t matter anymore.
JAMES PINDELL: And my point to the globe was this template, this model is dissolving in front of our eyes and we can’t think of it the same way.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Pindell doesn’t know exactly when this change started - but there were signs in 2016. We all saw them.
President Donald Trump didn’t have to campaign the old way to win New Hampshire - there was no hustling up to the north country to shake hands at grocery stores - and he hardly picked up any key endorsements from NH activists.
Because Trump had a NATIONAL brand - shaped by years of TV appearances.
And now - leading up to 2020 - Pindell sees evidence of this everywhere.
Pindell: And now that we are so many months in on this primary, I think there's absolutely no doubt that the clout of the state has significantly suffered.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: To see what Pindell is talking about here - this dissolving he’s describing - we decided to send Jack Rodolico out on the trail with Pindell.
SENATOR KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND: Good morning, how are you
JACK RODOLICO: We met up at an event for New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand - she had come to New Hampshire to announce her mental health care plan.
It was a pretty classic campaign event by New Hampshire primary standards - a candidate trying to make news about a policy speech in front of important early voters.
And this is NOT some big rally - there are just over a dozen people here - sitting in a small conference room at this community health center.
So small in fact that Pindell had to WHISPER to me so that Gillibrand doesn’t hear us talking about her - just 20 feet away from us.
JAMES PINDELL: I mean, the New Hampshire way is that you slowly build up with events like this. You have to do something on a random 10 o'clock on a Tuesday. So the crowd size doesn't matter...You make a pitch, you get press, you can build momentum. The problem is, election day isn't in February when the New Hampshire primary is. Her. Election Day is about eight days away from this event.
JACK RODOLICO: Her election day - Pindell says - isn’t the NH primary - it’s qualifying for the debates - to get in front of TV viewers across the country.
This stop was in late August - and at that moment Gillbrand was in trouble.
She wasn’t polling well enough and needed more donations from normal people across the country - or else she wasn’t going to get one of those coveted spots on the debate stage in September.
Historically - it’s New Hampshire and Iowa that candidates hold out for - because of those states have power to winnow the field.
This year - as the Democratic National Committee tries to deal with a massive field of candidates - they are setting the thresholds for these debates.
JAMES PINDELL: And that changes the metrics for all these candidates. And it's very tough...she just going all out. Well, you can't blame her. She has spaghetti against the wall.
JACK RODOLICO: Pindell says candidates behavior and strategy - is changing - now more than ever - their focus isn’t just here.
They need to get on CNN - on national podcasts - because the polling it takes to get into these debates - they’re not just from Iowa and New Hampshire. It’s lots of national polls too.
And that means New Hampshire’s power to winnow the field - it’s not what it used to be.
——-
GILLIBRAND VIDEO: Hey everyone, I wanted you to hear it from me first that after more than 8 incredible months I’m ending my presidential campaign.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: You must have heard by now - Gillibrand is out of the race - that event Jack and Pindell went to was actually her last one in New Hampshire.
And she’s not the only one - as of writing this episode 7 candidates have decided that it’s not worth sticking it out and pinning their hopes on a surprise victory in Iowa and New Hampshire.
NEWS REEL 1: Breaking news right now another shakeup in the 2020 Democratic race
NEWS REEL 2: NY Mayor Bill DeBlasio pulled the plug on his White House bid today
NEWS REEL 1: MA Congressman Seth Moulton has just dropped out after struggling to gain traction and unable to meet the criteria to get on the debate stage.
NEWS REEL 3: Washington Governor Jay Inslee dropping out of the race after another rival…
JAMES PINDELL: If there's one thing that people can take away. It's that this primary is changing before our eyes. It has threats that we don't know how to deal with. And there are people who want to put their head in the sand and say it's not happening. There are others who don't even understand that there is a problem right now with the threat of the primary. I love what this primary has been. And if we don't recognize that we have a problem. There's no way we can fix the problem.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: If you can’t tell - Pindell is really sweating this.
Sure it will still MATTER who wins the New Hampshire primary in 2020.
But we don’t know what that will mean exactly - will it be a springboard to white house or just another Delaware?
For Pindell this dilemma strikes at the core of what he sees as New Hampshire’s identity.
34:39 JAMES PINDELL: The New Hampshire primary is the identity. It's been the identity of my life and it's been it's been the identity of the state. And so what's it's not just that - these existential threats to the primary that we can have no control over. Right now, it's not that it's a clout has been gone. It's created identity crisis in the state. And as I admitted to my bosses, it's creating an identity crisis with myself what is what is it? What am I without the New Hampshire primary and the Iowa caucuses, something I have literally done my whole life, not mattering the same way.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Pindell goes on like this for a bit. And then he stops - and he says to me, he’s not too sure he likes what he’s saying.
JAMES: I don’t like my self interest line I’ll say that
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: What do you mean you don’t like that? It’s so real. James it’s so real
JAMES PINDELL: The self identity... I mean it’s not, I mean I’m going to be fine - that’s not the issues
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: No but it’s like a deep part of you that and that’s what identity is about.
JAMES: When I self self interest - it’s not oh wow I get to interview candidates running for president, that’s not it. I’m obviously so invested in this beautiful mythological system that I now see possibly coming to an end
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: And that may make you cry again.
JAMES: Laughs. It does.
(fade down)
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Pindell calls himself a person who is in love with the story.
For years he’s written about the New Hampshire primary.
He used to publish this list of powerful people in NH and which candidates they were backing - the names on the list represented the years of political capital NH had accumulated - the relationships that developed because of the state's role in shaping elections.
It used to say something about who our next president could be.
Now? Pindell’s dropped the list all together.
Because to him - that story? It’s over.
CREDITS:
This episode was reported and produced by me Lauren Chooljian.
If you’re interested in state by state demographics and how they compare to the electorate as a whole - head on over to our website - we’ve got a link to our NPR colleague Asma Khalid’s reporting from 2016 where she built this fascinating data set called the Perfect State Index.
And yes - if you want to see pictures of college me with 2008 candidates - and Bill Gardner - which I totally forgot about - go to our website nhpr.org.
Stranglehold is edited by NHPR’s Director of Content Maureen McMurray and News Director Dan Barrick and Stranglehold senior producer Jack Rodolico.
Additional editing help came from Casey McDermott and Tony Arnold. And sound mixing by Hannah McCarthy, me and Jason Moon.
Jason and Lucas Anderson also created the dope original music in this episode.
And one more moment for the great Jason Moon because I truly could not have done this episode without his producing - editing - mixing - and the all important skill of politely telling me when my writing isn’t that funny.
Rebecca Lavoie is NHPR’s Digital Director and Sara Plourde made our beautifully aggressive podcast graphics.
And of course very special thanks to dad - Barry Chooljian - who helped us name this podcast. He’s a high school wrestling coach by the way - does it make more sense now?
Additional thanks to Elaine Kamarck, Connor O’Brien, John DiStaso, Kathy Sullivan, Basil Battaglia, Hannah McCarthy, Megan Sweeney Hall
And archival tape from CSPAN.
Stranglehold is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio.