Note: This transcript was adapted from a radio script. It may contain grammar errors and format quirks that certain readers find offensive.
Before we get started, just a quick warning. Politics is a dirty sport and there’s some foul language coming your way. Enjoy the show.
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[YVETTE LEWIS SINGS STAR-SPANGLED BANNER]
You know by now that presidential candidates swing through New Hampshire all the time. They go to diners, high school gyms, main street walks, stuff like that. It’s run of the mill here.
But even by New Hampshire standards, the scene that unfolded on a recent sunny Saturday in downtown Manchester was pretty intense.
MAUREEN MCMURRAY: Oh, wow. So there are a ton of people here...
Nineteen candidates were all under the same roof. And thousands of people were lining up to be a part of it. We sent producer Maureen McMurray down there with NHPR’s senior political reporter Josh Rogers.
MAUREEN MCMURRAY: So there are a ton of people. Describe what’s happening here.
JOSH ROGERS: This is what they call sign wars, kind of pre-event pep rallies. Some of these people have been here since 4:00 in the morning to get the prime position…. We’ve got Beto. You've got Amy Klobuchar. We've got Bernie. We've got Biden. We’ve got Yang.
This is the pregame show - kind of like a pep rally before a big game. Everyone’s hoisting signs and chanting competing slogans. They’re just getting pumped for the day.
JOSH ROGERS: I mean, you have to imagine some of these people have been drinking heavily.
In the crowd, candidates for president start popping up. Joe Biden walks by.
MAUREEN MCMURRAY: Who is that?
JOSH ROGERS: So you can see Elizabeth Warren right there. I mean, there's Elizabeth Warren's husband right there.
[MUSIC brass band from street]
So in its most authentic moments, this is what the New Hampshire primary is all about. Voters rubbing elbows with some of the most powerful people in American politics. This doesn’t happen just anywhere.
REBECCA MCWILLIAMS: Politics is my sport, and that's one of the reasons I love New Hampshire, because we really get involved in politics like other people get involved in football.
New Hampshire is in the thick of the 2020 campaign right now. And when that campaign is unfolding, it can feel like this state is the center of the political world.
[FADE brass band]
I mean, three weeks before Democrats gathered here, President Trump held a rally in the same place.
DONALD TRUMP: Our hearts beat to the words of the New Hampshire state motto:”Live free or die.”
But… New Hampshire’s relationship with the primary is more complicated than a couple big rallies overflowing with energized voters. Because you don’t have to go too far from a campaign stop to find people who really don’t care about this sacred institution.
JACK RODOLICO: Do you follow the primary at all? INTERVIEWEE 1: Not really, man. /// INTERVIEWEE 2: I don't pay much attention, you know, as long as I'm able to go to work and still make a paycheck.
[DRUMS]
There’s a mythology about the New Hampshire primary and it’s important role in American politics. And central to that mythology is the New Hampshire voter. A person who’s more engaged. Who pays close attention to politics. Who every four years trudges through snow wearing plaid and flannel to cast a ballot. Because they know their vote just might be worth votes in other states.
But if you look a little bit closer, you’ll find voters here who say that New Hampshire’s first-in-the-nation primary? It’s not special. It’s no different than any other part of America politics.
PATRICIA HICKS: Oh yeah and I think it’s all … bullshit!
[GUITAR]
From New Hampshire Public Radio, this is Stranglehold. I’m Jack Rodolico.
In just a few months, voters in New Hampshire will once again send some presidential candidates limping out of the Granite State and maybe propel others to victories in other states.
But do New Hampshire voters value that privilege? Do they deserve it? Are they as engaged as they are made out to be? Are they doing the hard work it takes to vet candidates?
Those are the exact questions we proposed to the voters themselves. And that’s what this episode is all about.
INTERVIEWEE 1: I’m happy we have it. I think it’s unfair. But I’m happy for the unfairness.
INTERVIEWEE 2: I mean it’s pretty awesome. You open up the paper and you see virtually every national candidate showing up in a place that’s no more than 25 minutes from your house.
INTERVIEWEE 3: Working people are not able to go see candidates and go to demonstrations and all that because they’re working all the time.
INTERVIEWEE 4: No, I do I think it’s all bullshit. It’s all -- oh we’ll do this, oh we’ll do that. But when it comes down to it they don’t do crap.
[MUSIC OUT]
We wanted to give you a sense of what it’s like to live through a raucous weekend in New Hampshire in the thick of primary season.
So we sent a team of reporters across the state, from Friday to Saturday night. We gave them an assignment. Talk to as many different voters as you can. People inside the political bubble, and outside it too.
And before I tell you how we found the cynics, let’s go back to the true believers.
RAY BUCKLEY: Are you ready to win in 2020? Are you ready to win in 2020?
This rally for Democrats in Manchester was a big deal, both for voters and the candidates. As you probably know -- Democrats have A LOT of choices about who they’ll send to the general election to try to unseat President Trump. So the state Democratic party invited all those candidates to address New Hampshire voters directly.
And virtually all of them accepted the invitation. Inside the arena, nineteen candidates took turns at the mic. It took hours.
JOE BIDEN: Hello, New Hampshire!
PETE BUTTIGIEG: Hello, New Hampshire Democrats!
ELIZABETH WARREN: Hello, New Hampshire Democrats!
BERNIE SANDERS: Thank you, New Hampshire!
For voters in most states, presidential campaigns are reduced to sound bites and viral social media moments. Maybe they catch the debates before they vote. Watch a stump speech on YouTube. But in this room, voters are having a very different experience.
KAMALA HARRIS: Hiiiiiiii! What’s up?
Tickets to get in here cost 20 to 35 bucks. For that price they get to size up the whole field in person. See how the candidates perform, back to back, in real time.
And that’s only part of the experience.
[CHANTING: I believe in Beto! I believe in Beto!I believe in Beto!…]
One of our reporters, Casey McDermott, was walking through a hallway as it turned into a kind of informal red carpet walk. Just listen to this woman as she completely loses it over a Beto O’Rourke sighting.
[CHANTING: I believe in Beto! I believe in Beto! I believe in Beto!]
Marianne Williamson’s surfaces too.
[CHANTING: Hey-hey, ho-ho! Marianne will steal the show!]
It seems like in every corner of this building, you can find a gaggle of Democrats breaking out into a new chant. Like up in a suite rented by the firefighters union, which has endorsed Biden.
[CHANTING: Go Joe…]
Down near the stage, the convention floor is clogged with local politicians. Cory Booker is speaking.
JOSH ROGERS: There are people holding up the letters C-O-R-Y including a state senator in the middle with the baseball hat on. One could argue that it is beneath his dignity, but who’s to say…. I mean it’s really that part of politics that I just don't get at all. Like I just don’t have that in me. Sort of religious ecstasy...
The New Hampshire Democratic party claims this is the largest event Democrats have ever held in the state. And everywhere you go in this arena, you find a sense of pride and privilege. A sense that every vote counts. Even the voters up in the nosebleed seats seem to feel that they have real power.
MARCUS PONCE DE LEON: Oh 1000 percent I consider being in New Hampshire at this time in history to be a great privilege to have this kind of access to the candidates.
///
JANE COVIELLO: I mean, we've been watching the debates on television following the newspaper reports. But this is up close and personal and it's very electric.
///
CARLOS CARDONA: At the end of the day New Hampshire will have a big say as to who the next president of the United States of America will be. And we will be in the history books because we will be the ones that have led to get rid of Donald Trump.
New York has Broadway and the Met. California has Hollywood. The Live Free or Die State? We’ve got this.
TOM PEREZ: We’re gonna show him that he has no choice but to pack his bags and get his ass out of the White House.
But on the same weekend, in the same state, in the midst of what everyone considers to be a monumental presidential campaign, thousands of people were gathering for something else. Something that had nothing to do with politics.
[CHEERING: COME ON DEREK!!!!]
We’ll take you there, in just a minute.
MIDROLL
[BOY SINGS STAR-SPANGLED BANNER]
A massive political rally is an obvious place to find highly-engaged voters who’ll say the New Hampshire primary really means something to them. But we know those voters don’t speak for the whole state. And we wanted to reach others voices too.
[One, two, ready go… MARCHING BAND…]
The same weekend that Democrats were rallying in New Hampshire, it was opening weekend for highschool football.
[DEFENSE!! DEFENSE!!]
We figured - football, right? What a great place to meet people right where they’re at. Hanging out on a Friday night or Saturday afternoon, eating hotdogs, cheering on their kids.
So we sent reporters to games across the state.
JACK RODOLICO: Alright. It’s Jack. I’m in Concord.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: It’s Lauren. I’m in Manchester under the lights.
ANNIE ROPIEK: I’m Annie. And I’m in Farmington New Hampshire.
JASON MOON: It’s friday night. Hanover, New Hampshire. Heading to the football field.
That last voice was Jason. And we also sent out Sarah.
SARAH GIBSON: It’s an amazing sunset. The cheerleaders are freezing.
Each reporter had the same set list of questions. Our goal was to get people chatting about the primary to see if we could draw any conclusions about New Hampshire voters. How engaged are they? Do they really care about the primary?
And look, we know that this is hardly scientific. This isn’t a Pew poll.
But here’s one thing that became clear right away. Forget the primary -- a lot of people just don’t want to talk about politics. Period.
ANNIE ROPIEK: Do you wanna talk about politics for a couple minutes?
INTERVIEWEE 1: No.
ANNIE ROPIEK Not at all?
INTERVIEWEE1: Not at all.
SARAH GIBSON: Do you pay attention to politics at all?
INTERVIEWEE 2: I don't even vote.
SARA GIBSON: Well, can I ask you about that?
INTERVIEWEE: No.
ANNIEROPIEK: So what do you think about the primary? Do you follow it at all?
INTERVIEWEE 3: No.
INTERVIEWEE 4: I voted once since I've been able to vote.
INTERVIEWEE 5: I think they’re all full of crap dude. I really do.
[CROWD CHEERING]
That was a sizeable group of people we interviewed. People who have the power to vote but are outright disengaged. We didn’t get far with them.
But most people did have an opinion about the primary. One of the questions reporters were armed with had to do with a common criticism of the New Hampshire primary: Is it fair for New Hampshire to vote for presidential candidates before voters in other states?
INTERVIEWEE 1: Fair? I mean, I think it's neither fair or not fair. It's just that's how it works. And so that's how it is.
INTERVIEWEE I don’t know. I don’t think it matters if it's fair or not. It's just kind of the way it's always been.
INTERVIEWEE 3: There's so much in politics that’s unfair. This is so low on the spectrum.
INTERVIEWEE 4: Someone has to go first. Why not New Hampshire?
Clearly, they’re not losing sleep over that question.
But here’s where things get more nuanced. We wanted to get to the heart of the thing that so many powerful people in New Hampshire have fought against. The threats to the primary. The states that wanted to jump the line. The party bosses who tried to shake up the calendar. The idea that New Hampshire could lose this thing that’s a part of its identity.
JASON MOON: Would you be upset if New Hampshire lost the first-in-the-nation primary?
I just wanna warn the primary guardians who have suffered through this podcast. Some of this tape is gonna hurt.
INTERVIEWEE 1: No, I wouldn't be upset.
INTERVIEWEE 2: No.
INTERVIEWEE 3: No, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me.
INTERVIEWEE 4: As long as I got to vote...I don't think it really would matter.
JACK RODOLICO: What do you think it'll be like if we didn't have the primary here?
INTERVIEWEE 5: I think we'll be forgotten.
INTERVIEWEE 6: Well, I think we would become like every other state, which means we’d become virtually insignificant.
INTERVIEWEE 7: Personally, I want to be upset. I don't think. But I think in the long run residents would regret it.
[WHISTLE]
When we were done with this weekend, we had about 18 hours of tape. I listened to all of it. And I have to say what you just heard was surprisingly consistent. A lot of people just don’t care if we had the primary first or not.
JACK RODOLICO: Hey folks. Hope you don’t mind. I want to ask… [laughs] They’re both like, no, no no. Can I just tell you what I’m doing?
One of them warmed up pretty quickly. Richard Simons. He’s a Trump supporter.
JACK RODOLICO: Did you vote for him in the last primary?
RICHARD SIMONS: I sure did.
JACK RODOLICO: So was that like pretty cool to be on the ground level of -- I mean, that's one thing about being in New Hampshire. You get to vote before everybody else and kind of catapult somebody towards the White House. Was that like -- did you feel like you were part of something?
RICHARD SIMONS: Not really. I just like the way that he does it stuff. He's right to the point. He doesn’t beat around the bush. He just mows the bush over. Ya know what I mean. Gets right to it. That's what we need in this world, I think.
JACK RODOLICO: Would it affect you if the primary went away from New Hampshire? Like, do you think about it?
RICHARD SIMONS: Wouldn’t affect me at all. Tell you that. It's just -- I do what I wanted to. And that's the whole thing about New Hampshire. Live free or die, right? I do what I want when I want to do it.
This guy supports the president, plans to vote for him again. But it’s not like he’s gone to a Trump rally or anything. He doesn’t engage in the primary in that way.
Although we met plenty of people who do…
INTERVIEWEE 1: My mom saw Corey Booker.
INTERVIEWEE 2: Let’s see - saw John McCain.
INTERVIEWEE 3: I've gone out when Obama first ran.
INTERVIEWEE 4: You know the president. I saw Hillary. Chris Christie.
INTERVIEWEE 5: Lyndon Johnson at the Manchester Airport met him. You know, Nelson Rockefeller and John Kennedy.
SARAH GIBSON: Where did you meet Jeb Bush?
INTERVIEWEE 6: At the airport diner. Did I vote for him? Well, no. But it was nice.
[CHEERLEADERS]
PATRICIA HICKS: Watch out honey. Oh we got a radio person here.
That’s Patricia Hicks. Aka, Nana.
PATRICIA HICKS: I’m the nana!
SARAH GIBSON: You’re the nana?
PATRICIA HICKS: I’m the nana.
Nana did this thing that so many people we interviewed did. At first, she did not want to share her views about politics. As though her opinion was so volatile, we couldn’t handle it.
PATRICIA HICKS: You don’t want an answer from me.
But once she opened up, she was a good contrast to the mythological primary voter. She’s engaged. She votes. She watches the news.
But she doesn’t believe in that core pillar of the New Hampshire primary: that retail politics makes for better presidents.
SARAH GIBSON: So does it matter to you to be able to meet a presidential candidate?
PATRICIA HICKS: No. No, I would not…. No, I know I'll do my voting, but it's gonna take a lot. And I know I won't vote for Trump.
And then, as the marching band jumps into “Crazy Little Thing Called Love” by Queen, Nana looks down at the field … and she starts to cry. Her grandson plays drums.
PATRICIA HICKS: I’m gonna cry.
SARAH: Why just seeing him play?
PATRICIA HICKS: Oh I love watching him play.
[ANNOUNCER The winner of the 50/50 raffle is…]
I want you to hear one of my favorite pieces of tape from the football games. It starts with Lauren as she accidentally scares the life out of her next interviewee.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Hi…
CAMELLIA: AHHH!
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Oh my god. I’m Lauren I scared you to death. What’s your name?
CAMELLIA: Camellia Bagley-Anderson
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Oh, thank you so much for the full beautiful name.
Camellia tells Lauren that’s she’s here to see her son play. She’s got six kids.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Are you one of them? What's your name?
HELENA: Helena.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: How old are you?
HELENA: Seven.
So this family moved here from Texas ten years ago. Camellia, her kids, and her husband Alan.
ALAN: We come from the Bible Belt where there is politics and political decision making that’s going on, but nothing in comparison here.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Do you think New Hampshire is representative of the rest of the country?
CAMELLIA: No.
ALAN: No.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: So in that way, does it make sense in New Hampshire's first?
CAMELLIA: No.
ALAN: No, it doesn't. But I noticed that...
CAMELLIA: I think it should be like a like Florida, like Florida or California or Massachusetts. A bit more diversity.
ALAN: Yeah. Yeah.
LAUREN CHOOLJIAN: Living here, I don't know if this is like an extra perk that it's like super political.
ALAN: Not so much. We we do care about the decisions that are made, but we're not, we're not into politics, per say. I mean, we go out and vote. We haven't missed an election. But as far as beyond that, no, we're not we don't even go to the rallies or anything like that. That's not us.
CAMELLIA: Right. I want it to be my decision. I don't want the crowd to be my decision.
ALAN: And I'm not going with the crowd just because that's the popular thing.
[MUSIC]
There are a lot of great things you can say about New Hampshire voters. They are engaged. They get they have a privilege. And they try to use their power wisely. That’s all true. For some people.
But it’s also true that a lot of them don’t think or care much about it at all. That one election every four years doesn’t define their lives, or their communities. When the circus comes to town, not everyone buys a ticket.
[MUSIC SWELL]
There’s a class of politicos in New Hampshire who have long made the case that this state deserves to have the first primary. They say New Hampshire is special. And they use a data point to back that claim up. They say voters here show up at the polls in higher numbers than other states. And that’s true.
During the 2016 nominating cycle, you know which states had higher voter turnout rates than New Hampshire? None of them. New Hampshire topped the list.
But here’s a caveat. Voter turnout in New Hampshire drops in virtually every election other than the presidential primary.
In the most recent midterm election, ya know which states had higher voter turnout than New Hampshire? Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, North Dakota, Oregon, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, and Wisconsin. New Hampshire tied with two other states … for 15th place.
So is it true that New Hampshire is first because it’s special? No.
But it does seem to be true that New Hampshire is special because it’s first.
[GAME SOUND FADE UP]
I wanna tell you about this one last person I met at the football game. Her name is Carolyn Kershaw. We had a nice chat. She was actually the first person I interviewed.
And then at halftime I walked by her again.
CAROLYN KERSHAW: So based on what we talked about. What's the feeling?
JACK RODOLICO: In terms of what exactly?
She wanted gossip. She wanted me to tell her how the people from her town vote. I told her mostly Republican (like her) mostly didn’t think much about the primary (like her).
And then she seemed really curious when I told her I was gonna walk to the bleachers on the other side of the field to talk to folks from the Catholic school.
CAROLYN KERSHAW: You going on that side?
JACK RODOLICO: Yeah.
CAROLYN KERSHAW: All right. Let me know before you leave. I'm just curious. Yeah, I just want to know.
So I did. An hour later, Carolyn was still in her lawn chair, watching her team get crushed.
JACK RODOLICO: I would say folks over there, a lot more folks over there, I met several folks who go out and see candidates. Like that's what they do. They go out. Even if they're Republican, they go out and see the Democrats. They shop.
CAROLYN KERSHAW: So here’s a thought for you.
JACK RODOLICO: Yeah, please.
CAROLYN KERSHAW: Those are private school parents. So you're talking about a totally different demographic.
JACK RODOLICO: Tell me more about that. What do you mean?
CAROLYN KERSHAW: They're probably from a richer demographic because their kids go to a private school versus the people that go to public school. So, of course, you would see that they go out to candidates. So they probably host them because they're in that group…. Where working people are not able to do to go see candidates and go to demonstrations and all that because they're working all the time so.
JACK RODOLICO: Do you think that's true to politics in general and how people follow politics. Or is it -- are you making an observation about the primary itself?
CAROLYN KERSHAW: No, I think it’s in general. I don't think it's just the primary.
And it turns out … she’s right. She’s speaking from her gut here. But there’s research to back this up. In America, people with more money tend to vote more. People with less money tend to vote less. That’s true just about everywhere - in states that are pretty much ignored in presidential campaigns, and in states that are constantly told how special they are.
JACK RODOLICO: Thank you very much.
CAROLYN KERSHAW: You're welcome.
JACK RODOLICO: You have a good night. And you said your husband's coach, right?
CAROLYN KERSHAW: Yeah. It's not going to be a good night at home.
JACK RODOLICO: Yeah because we’re dealing with a score 50-20 right now?
CAROLYN KERSHAW: Yeah.
JACK RODOLICO: But I heard that had a great season last year...
By the end of this long weekend, a few things were clear.
Candidates are still willing to com here - and that means they want they attention of New Hampshire voters.
And those “mythological” New Hampshire voters...they’re just that. Some people are engaged, others don’t give a damn. Some believe in the primary, others don’t spare it a thought.
And when you sweep aside the myth, you’re left with a powerful reality. New Hampshire is still first - and that’s not changing in 2020.
[THEME MUSIC]
Over the past few episodes we’ve tried to explain the stranglehold as best we can. How New Hampshire got it. How we’ve kept it. The ugly fights. The changing identity of this crucial state. And the tectonic shifts in presidential primary politics.
But we’re not finished yet. We’re gonna take you to the front lines of the race to win the New Hampshire primary in 2020.
And we are going to show you a side of the primary that rarely makes it on T.V. We will not obsess over polling or debate performances. We will not attempt to predict who’ll win here. Instead… it’s gonna sounds something like this…
VOICE 1: I think I said he not only touches the third rail, he dry humps it and French kisses it. I think I added a French kiss.
JOSH ROGERS: What do you guys think about Trump?
VOICE 1: Only white people like him
VOICE 3: Why is there -- why is there no black people here?
CASEY MCDERMOTT: Have there been any drink orders that surprised you?
VOICE 4: Marianne Williamson came and all our chamomile tea got sold out.
JOSH ROGERS: What’d you think?
VOICE 5: Absolutely amazing!
We’ll drop you into the middle of the race to the White House - in all its glory and gore, in its grace and awkwardness. That’s next time on Stranglehold.
This episode was produced by me Jack Rodolico, Stranglehold’s Senior Producer.
But I had tremendous help from all the reporters who gathered tape over that long crazy weekend. The names of those talented people are… Lauren Chooljian, Sarah Gibson, Casey McDermott, Maureen McMurray, Jason Moon, Josh Rogers, and Annie Ropiek. Thank you all.
Stranglehold is edited by NHPR’s Director of Content, Maureen McMurray, and News Director, Dan Barrick.
Additional editing help from Lauren Chooljian, Casey McDermott, Jason Moon, and Josh Rogers.
Sound mixing by Jason Moon, who, along with Lucas Anderson, created the Stranglehold’s theme song, which I honestly listen to when I’m driving in my car by myself.
Rebecca Lavoie is NHPR’s Digital Director. And Sara Plourde made our beautifully aggressive podcast graphics.
Stranglehold is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio.